[00:00:00.250] – David Maples

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Buck Stops Here Podcast. I’m your host, David Maples, and you’re listening to part two of our interview with Abigail Foster. This episode is entitled “The Quest,” or the instructions given to you by the guide you met on the mountain. That’s right, today we’re talking about assessments; how you can use them for yourself personally and in your business.

 

[00:00:28.590] – David Maples

There’s a whole slew of these behavioral assessments. There’s something from the five dysfunctions of a team now. There’s the Birkman assessment. There’s Myers-Briggs, which is probably the one that everybody’s heard of. You even have DISC that goes back to the 1930s and 40s. So, I want to talk about how you use assessments, who should utilize them, and what kind of insights can you get about them. You mentioned before that when you first did a Birkman at one of your earlier jobs, it was that proverbial light bulb going off. You know? It was like, oh, my gosh, this is who I am, and this is what I’ve been doing. So, I want to talk about that for a minute. And I want to talk about not just the assessments, like the different kinds a little bit. We don’t have to go into each one in particular. I know you’re certified in quite a few of these. Talk about kind of like what they are and what they are or not, because I think one of the pitfalls I’ve seen and we’ve got an employment company coming on the podcast in a few weeks here, and they talked about, like, oh, in certain states like-

 

[00:01:35.860] – David Maples

And I know, in particular, the Myers-Briggs has gotten real flak in certain states. In the United States, you can’t use it in hiring at all. It’s literally forbidden, and you’re not allowed to use it for different reasons. So, I want to talk about what assessments do, what are they not, and should people use them, you know? I mean, how does this work? Or are they just random horoscopes? By the way, if you have a horoscope, I am a Scorpio. Just letting you know. Don’t hold that against me. All right. So, to this, tell me about assessments. And how do you utilize them, and what’s the power in them?

 

[00:02:09.810] – Abby Foster

So, what I would tell you is different assessments, I personally believe – this is my opinion – are good and impactful in different situations, and none of them are worth the paper they’re written on unless you go into the so what. I can say I’m an extrovert, you’re an extrovert, you’re an introvert, you’re something in between, right? So what? So, what does that mean? How do you apply it? There’s some that are surface level, and those are great for actually almost as an ice breaker, you know? Take something like a Myers-Briggs, you know? Really quick, really easy, you know, and everybody’s doing the same thing and can chit-chat around about what they are, you know, that kind of thing. So, that kind of brings people together, and it gives you a common language. That’s one of the ways that organizations use assessments is to have that common language across the organization. Once again, the common language is great, you know? The reality is, David, I couldn’t be around you more than two seconds without recognizing you’re an extrovert. Right? I mean, and everybody knows that about you. So, the so what, needs, okay, so then how does that apply to our situation? And that’s kind of the next level. So, when you can take an assessment, and then you can utilize it to go to the next level, that’s where I think you get the real benefit and the real impact of it.

 

[00:03:54.750] – Abby Foster

Personal awareness is one of those things. So many people have gone through life letting everybody else tell them who they are, right? Now they know they’re pretty good at some things, but they don’t realize that is a superpower for them. And they don’t realize that no matter what challenge they face in life, it’s that superpower that’s going to help get them through it. They also don’t realize what they’re not good at, right? Or what they don’t have an automagic kind of ability at. And if they don’t know, they might try doing it rather than utilizing a teammate or something or someone else who really that’s their superpower. So, it’s really in how you come together as a team and how you use one another strengths to mitigate weaknesses and to kind of get a better answer. That’s like a perfect way to use assessments. I would tell you the number one thing you should be using assessments for is personal awareness. Personal awareness is the absolute foundation of all leadership development. When you know yourself, you recognize yourself. We all have triggers, right? When we’re triggered-

 

[00:05:11.550] – Abby Foster

To be able to recognize, “I was just triggered,” allows you to back up from the situation and think about it. When you’re a leader, your words have weight. They matter. What you say matters, and what you do matters. And when something triggers you and all of a sudden you’re angry, you’re frustrated, whatever, you have two choices. You can react to that trigger, which is the – what we call – Amygdala Hijack, and you just immediately go into survival mode; fight, flight, freeze. Or you can recognize that you’ve been triggered back up from it. What do I know about myself? Why did that bother me? Right? And once you get your arms around that, then you can deliberately and intentionally respond. What we want to do is respond versus react. And to the extent that personality assessments can give us what we need to be able to recognize ourselves in the moment, that, to me, is the best application. And that is what’s so powerful as well. Now, a lot of times you’ll have people- I’ve had people take the Birkman, and that’s coaching session number one, right? And we do the two-hour feedback. You know, we really dive into the DNA of them, right? So, not just what do people see on the surface, but what’s driving all of that?

 

[00:06:35.550] – Abby Foster

What are your needs? And, by the way, nobody’s responsible for getting our needs met except us. So, when we know what those needs are, then we can do that. And the next session, they’ll come back and say, okay, so I was looking at my Birkman, and what I figured out is my husband is a X, and my mother is this, and my boss is this. And so, they’re actually not personalizing it for themselves, right? And so, that’s kind of a cue for me to say, okay, so let’s talk about you and what you’ve learned about you. You know, where did you see these different attributes since we last met and since you first found out about this? So, I would say that people kind of having just enough knowledge to be dangerous, right, and applying it to everybody else is probably not the best use of personality assessments. It’s all about being grounded and really aware about who you are and then using that to intentionally, deliberately respond to, you know, whatever situation that you’re in in order to get the best possible outcome.

 

[00:07:51.430] – David Maples

By the way, do you say automagic? Do you say that? Or, is it automatic?

 

[00:07:54.745] – Abby Foster

I say automagic. Yes.

 

[00:07:56.950] – David Maples

That’s a word you say?

 

[00:07:58.200] – Abby Foster

It is a word I say.

 

[00:07:59.860] – David Maples

I loved it. I thought it was awesome.

 

[00:08:02.340] – Abby Foster

I say automagically. Yes.

 

[00:08:04.990] – David Maples

Automagically. No, I actually really dug that. I was like- I wrote that down. I’ve also had an employee before who used the DISC assessment. We did some training on it, and then she went out and went to bars and would, like, identify guys like, you’re a D-I, you know? Or, you’re an I-C. And literally, she used it, and people were, like, amazed because it’s like she was reading their palms or something.

 

[00:08:26.994] – Abby Foster

Yeah.

 

[00:08:27.120] – David Maples

But at the same time, it was like, you’re not doing the work on yourself. So, I personally had a Birkman assessment done, and I had a coaching session, as you said, with an executive coach that went on for, you know, it’s a couple of hours to review that. And I want to say that I was kind of floored. As you said, I’m an extrovert, but there were some details in there that I know personally, but I don’t think it ever given voice to them before. So, I’m an extrovert, but I need a lot of alone time to process things, and nobody knows that about me. I think they all think, “Oh, David always needs to be surrounded with people.” And the fact is, for me to do the deep thinking and processing I need, I need a lot of alone time, which is kind of been it’s the opposite of what you would expect.

 

[00:09:17.480] – David Maples

And I think one of the big insights for me, for meeting with an executive coach, was that. And so, in your particular situation, this kind of self-awareness, it’s kind of like if you’re doing an assessment and maybe reading this stuff might be enough for some people, but it sounds like you really need to talk to an executive coach like you or someone like you who has experience in this to help kind of break this down for them. Is that kind of what I’m hearing in your last answer?

 

[00:09:46.860] – Abby Foster

Yeah, and it’s not just – taking you as an example in what you just talked about. So, as a person who shows up being very, very social, you found out that what you need though, is a long time. What that means is, think about yourself if you were in a larger organization, because of the way you show up, people are going to automatically gravitate to you when it comes to events and things like that. And you’re going to get invited, first of all, because you are so social, and at the same time, then they’re going to choose you to actually be involved in it. And to the point where you, knowing that you need time alone, now that you know that, you need to be able to use a great deal of discernment in determining, you know, what you will say yes to, and what you can and what you can’t do because you can very quickly you can go kind of- you cannot get any of that downtime or that alone time.

 

[00:10:51.050] – Abby Foster

Another thing that I see is everything is on a continuum. I don’t care what assessment you take; we are all sum of all of it. And recognizing that what those assessments are gauging is your dominant behaviors. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have the other behaviors. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have introvert behaviors and things like that. What it means is your dominant behavior is extrovert. And all of those behaviors, too, are typically on a continuum. So, if you think about your needs on the continuum, if your needs were somewhat average, it would kind of be situational, whatever’s going on, you know, in your life as a whole. If your need is really extreme in one way or the other – extreme not being a bad word, right? – but if it’s really intense – is the word I would say; intensity – if it’s really intense one way or another, what that means is you are at a higher risk for not having that need met because of the intensity behind it. So, that’s another thing that, again, it’s being able to apply it and recognizing, you know, what the situation is.

 

[00:12:08.740] – Abby Foster

Sometimes when we bring teams together, we do the individual Birkmans, then we do the group Birkman. We let them see as a group, this is what you look like. Now we’ve had one team, and I don’t mind saying this is at the University of Arkansas, and this is a leadership team. What we found is that nobody in their leadership team was a communicator. And one of the big missings for them as an organization was communication with all the other departments and everything on the campus so that they understood who they were, what they needed, what their expectations were, and exactly how they could best serve them. So, when you look at it as a group, now you’re able to see, well, we’ve got a missing here. What are we going to do about it, right? And how will we handle that? It doesn’t mean that people on the team can’t communicate. It means that they need to be deliberate about it because it’s nobody’s kind of go-to on that team. So, just recognizing where you have some missings and being very deliberate about how you structure your activities as a team and as a group to make sure that you’re hitting all of the needs.

 

[00:13:27.350] – David Maples

There’s something you said today that was really powerful, like if we were to do a clip on this, it’s like when you’re in leadership, you said this, your words have weight.

 

[00:13:35.654] – Abby Foster

Words matter.

 

[00:13:36.050] – David Maples

But we don’t think about that. So, sometimes I tell Devin or Caesar, just say, “Hey, can you hop in my room just so we can chat for a minute?” And it’s like, I always want to say, “Hey, this is good stuff, please come to my room.” Because virtually, you know, it’s different. I say, “Come to my room. Let’s have a chat.” And they’re like they think they’re getting fired. And you’re like, “No, we love you. We think you’re awesome. No.” Anyway.

 

[00:13:57.370] – Abby Foster

You know, the reality is, that’s always been true for leaders. Our words have always had weight. In the past, we wanted the weight, and we used the weight in order to get things done. Today, that weight will absolutely implode your organization if you’re not aware of it. And that’s because times have changed, right? And the culture has changed. If you- One of the best gifts you can ever give the people who report to you as a leader is what to expect from you. Sit down and tell them who you are. Now, if you don’t know who you are, then that’s going to be a debacle. But sit down and tell them who you are. Look, this is who I am. This is how I operate. This is what you can expect from me. If you want to communicate with me, boy, I always answer texts right away. Text is my number one, you know? And then email number two. I am very direct, and sometimes I’m so direct that somebody might be afraid to tell me that something’s wrong. Here’s something else I’m going to give you, and it is the gift of knowing I will always have your back.

 

[00:15:14.120] – Abby Foster

Tell me what’s going on, and together, if it’s in the ditch, we’ll get it out. But I will not, you know- I will not  blame you or anybody else. I’m going to work with you. And actually, in today’s world, with our younger generations, that’s an absolute must, you know? Transparency means everything. And for those of us who are more seasoned, we have to learn to be transparent. Leadership is not about power; it’s about collaboration. And it’s really about leveraging everybody and taking each and every one of those unique contributions and pulling them all together, you know, to get the absolute best answer. That’s everybody winning together. And it matters today so much more than it ever did before. We gave it a whole lot of lip service back in the ’90s, you know, and things like that. We’re actually doing it today. We’re expected to do it today, and to the extent that we are still viewing our leadership like we did back in the ’90s. It’s not going to be effective, and we’re not going to be effective, and we’re going to lose what is our workforce. The workforce pool is really strained right now. We are not going to be able to attract or retain our fair share of all the talent out there if we don’t learn how to shift the way we lead.

 

[00:16:52.630] – David Maples

So what are kind of the three takeaways? So, assessments, you said, are about self-discovery. What would you say are the three takeaways if they’ve listened to you talk about assessments today – Birkman, DISC, these Myers-Briggs things – what would you say the three things they should remember about assessments are and how to use them?

 

[00:17:08.500] – Abby Foster

Right. So, one thing I’d say for sure is know yourself and own yourself. Another thing would be to be intentional and deliberate about the way that you respond to any given situation or circumstance. And the third thing I would say is fill in your own gaps because once you know who you are, you also know what you need in order to really collaborate and be your best self.

 

[00:17:41.570] – David Maples

I guess the other thing is don’t weaponize it against others.

 

[00:17:44.200] – Abby Foster

No, actually-

 

[00:17:46.370] – David Maples

Well, you mentioned that, and I think that probably happens more than we think. So, again, if you’re interested in finding out more about getting assessments done, you can go to ahnimisha.com. Abby does perform these for teams or individuals. And, you know, as The Buck Stops Here, we have our small DISC one at discba or discbehaviorassessment.com. You can go there and check that out. Again, Abby, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast today. It was really great to have you, and I think we all learned a lot in the process.

 

[00:18:18.230] – Abby Foster

Thank you.

 

[00:18:19.340] – David Maples

So, with that, thank you very much for your time.

 

[00:18:22.430] – Abby Foster

All right, thank you.

 

[00:18:23.820] – David Maples

This concludes the second part of our interview with Abigail Foster. If you’d like to find out more about what she does in her business, please go visit ahnimisha.com. That’s A-H-N-I-M-I-S-H-A dot com. And again, we want to give her a heartfelt thanks for coming on the show today and sharing her knowledge with all of us. If you like what you heard and don’t want to miss another episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you happen to be listening. Let us know what you think of the podcast or liked about the show, and give us a review or comment on YouTube, and your review could be featured on next week’s episode. Again, thank you for listening. Go out there and have an amazing week.